I often use this metaphor to describe why I, for example, cross the street when seeing a pack of young pitbulls on the sidewalk ahead of me. "Not every pitbull!" they say, but, as statistics (and personal experience) amply show, enough.
The issue of course is that the suicidal empathy (of those who encourage pitbull migration and native breeding programs) isn't restricted to their own self-destruction, it affects the entire country.
One statistic you left out - most dog bites happen to children, and most dog bites are to the face and head.
When I walked my dachshund in parks I had my hands full keeping children from running up to him to hug him as if he were a stuffed animal on a leash. Moms got mad at me for telling their kids to stay away. He never bit a kid but he could have easily bit many children had I not been a knowledgable and responsible dog owner. When kids asked me "Does he bite?" I answered, "All dogs bite."
I fed my 18-lb doxie raw chicken legs, which he bit into pieces before swallowing, bones and all. He could eat the raw bone out of a T-bone steak. A dachshund's teeth and jaw strength can easily do this. People are woefully uneducated about dogs, dog bites and the number of children maimed by dogs each year. Pit Bulls should be banned - no question.
I agree with the post and the general gist of comments re pits.
I also know what you are talking about with kids and your dog. Years ago when we would walk our dogs, it would throw me off the way some kids would be with their parents, then just run up to our dogs. The parents weren’t teaching their kids anything about asking if they could pet the dogs, etc. This was before we had kids and I guess our first intro into the world of parents not actually parenting. Even if the parents don’t know anything about dogs, maybe at least respect our space?
A 60 year old man was mauled to death by pit bulls near my home a couple weeks ago. Then they attacked a woman and her 2 kids. A nice new neighborhood. My own elderly aunt nearly had her arm torn off by a pit bull. When I lived in NM a guy was walking his pit bull and it ended up biting off his genitals. Pit bull owners are retards and should be imprisoned.
When I lived in NM ranch country it was routine for people to shoot dogs since they can cause enormous damage to livestock. If your dog got loose it would likely be terminated.
My wife is terrified of dogs. Where she comes from they eat dogs. We hike a lot and I have tried to reduce her fear but realize if a pit bull or aggressive dog came at us I wouldn't have much time to sweet talk the dog plus deal with my hysterical wife. So I have to carry a pistol and spray.
And if your dog attacks us I am coming after you. Pit bull owners are pussies to the core. One only needs a small dog for personal property protection. Anything else screams cowardice and stupidity.
Or on some very thin string leash, straining against it…while on a close quarters walking trail or hiking path where it could easily attack anyone passing by
I don’t understand how owners don’t constantly worry about liability
I will never forget being called to the pediatric emergency room in the wee hours of the night, as sole hospital Chaplain at that hour, to find grown men — Police and EMS and Firefighters — in collapse, over the death by mauling of a two year old girl, by the four ‘friendly’ pit bulls her maniacal family had left her with while they made a ‘brief’ visit to the local package store. Nor the time my little brother was attacked as a five year old. Nor the night I walked in the dark past a 40 foot long, 8 foot high fence along which a pit dragged itself, slobbering and growling teeth bared with rage half-over that fence towards me as it’s hind legs scratched for traction against its glazed surface, and failed. Nor the time a supposedly tamed pit of a friend sprung for the throat of her sister’s puppy simply because it had committed the crime of existing. Nor the freeze I know every time a neighbor is about out of nowhere with his massive black pit, straining to break out of its chains. ‘She’s friendly.’ Or the endurance needed to visit friends blind to their animal’s nature and lulled by romantic notions into assuring guests that the dog’s immediate need to jump aggressively at a visitor is just ‘being playful.’ Yes the breed is deadly. No it is not the breed’s fault. Yes it is the stupidity and narcissistic pride of the breeders and owners on whose hands the blood rests. These dogs need to be banned.
Never interacted with a purebred pittie. Just ones with mixed with golden retriever or yellow lab. Still, those dogs are not ones I’ve ever felt comfortable to be around my kid. Statistics prove my instinct correct.
Concerns about mixes are correct. I worked at The Animal Medical Center in NYC for over a decade. Second largest full scale animal hospital in the country, after Angel Memorial in Boston. The mixes are no more reliable than the pures. In fact in some ways more dangerous because you don’t know which instinct-set you’ll be dealing with. I think it’s safer to have the guard up always as with pures, rather than to be lulled by a cuddly moment masking killer intent.
There is a very real issue with the statistics and it’s that there isn’t a universal definition of a pit bull which is generally a type of dog as opposed to an actual breed of dog. American Pitbull Terrier isn’t recognized by the AKC but is by the UKC, the AKC doesn’t allow APBT to be registered as American Staffordshire Terriers but the UKC lets Am Staffs be registered as ABPT. On top of that most APBT are not registered and most that are registered are registered through specific breed registries and not the UKC.
Multiple studies have shown that people are very bad at identifying dogs as being even vaguely related to pit bulls. Studies also show that professionals that work with dogs are as bad at it as the general public and that trying to train people how to spot one actually makes them worse at it. One study showed that most dogs identified as “pit bulls” were in fact boxer and lab mixes. Sometimes purebreds that are decidedly not pit bulls like Cane Corsos, English Bulldogs, and Boxers are counted as pit bulls. Location also has a lot to do with what gets counted as a pit bull. I had a hunting dog in college and in rural areas everyone knew he was a hunting dog but when I had him in urban areas people called him a pit bull.
It’s kind of like looking at a study concerning the prevalence of porn but they include any depiction of human genitalia as porn, including classic works of art and medical texts and photos.
Now I realize this article is not predominantly concerned with the pit bull problem but “beware of the crappy statistics you’re given” is a good rule of thumb.
They kill far fewer people than pools do so I assume you advocate we rid our nation of those. Dogs generally kill the same number of people in the U.S. as bees so I assume you are for the eradication of bees as well. Around the same number of kids are killed by bicycle accidents as people are killed by dogs so I presume we need to ban all children from bicycles. Children’s sports kill about the same amount of kids as “pit bulls” annually so I guess that goes too huh? Around 4x more children are killed by single mothers than people of all ages are killed by all dogs so maybe we should take kids from single moms. It would definitely be safer. But then again foster care seems to kill thousands of kids a year so maybe that’s not such a good idea either.
The simple fact of the matter is that being seriously mauled or killed by a dog is extremely unlikely and accounts for a tiny portion of annual deaths in America. The idea that anything causing 100 deaths per year in a nation of more than 360 million is some sort catastrophic scenario that needs addressed is silly.
Not to mention the fact that there are tens of millions of dogs in this country that somebody somewhere could decide to call a pitbull. This nation made a four movie action franchise with the main plot of the protagonist killed people who killed his dog. Do you think for a minute that millions of Americans will just take their beloved pets to vets to be euthanized because someone somewhere said so? Do you think you could even find enough vets willing to do it to get it done? Americans hate the ATF for shooting Randy Weavers dog and don’t care that they shot his wife and baby. Any attempt at a nation wide culling of pit bulls would inevitably wind up with more dead people than pit bulls because there is high overlap between gun ownership and dog ownership.
no. you missed all basic facts. these breeds are an easily avoidable danger imposed by entitled/insecure people on the rest of us, without our say so. as opposed to lightning, bees, pools, blah blah blah. dumbass. your threat of gun violence aside, municipalities have successfully enacted bans on these things and the problem went away. simple fact. overturning bans by the pigs among us who are more obsessed with selfish wants than the safety of children, families, and pets only slow a tide that is already turning against them
Many of the municipal bans have been overturned and more of them will be. Pools are easier to ban than pit bulls as are bikes. The thing about municipal bans are they are rare and therefore easily avoidable
I think you're missing the point, which is that bicycles and sports are useful and have benefits outweighing the risks, whereas pitbulls have no benefit.
A relative of mine was un-seriously mauled by a pitbull. She'll never have use of the finger again and if a neighbor hasn't rushed to help she'd have probably lost the whole hand, or worse. We lost a cat to a neighbor's never-hurt-a-fly pitbull. 2 injuries by pitbulls and none by other dogs.
Many of the municipal bans have been overturned and more of them will be. Almost half of states have made breed specific legislation illegal. Pools are easier to ban than pit bulls as are bikes. The thing about municipal bans are they are rare and therefore easily avoidable by moving. A nationwide ban is a very different story. Plus almost all of the municipal bans grandfathered in dogs already there. Again since most dogs identified as pit bulls are actually mixed breed dogs you would still end up with pit bull appearing dogs long after you theoretically banned them and since you can’t prove something is a pit bull genetically there’s no real way to enforce it. Not to mention there are numerous studies that show no reduction in dog bites due to breed bans.
The people who are entitled and insecure are those who think 100 deaths a year is a reason to enact any sort of legislation let alone federal legislation.
This is a retarded argument. People aren’t walking around with swimming pools in the grocery store pushing you into them. And swimming pools provide an obvious benefit.
You’re reciting talking points to justify your opinion that you arrived at emotionally. If every pitbull vanished tomorrow everyone would be better off.
And as to your breed distinction, it’s not the gotcha you think it is. “Square headed fighting dogs” works just as well.
It’s the people arguing to be rid of of pit bulls that are arguing from emotion. They don’t like something so ban it. They can’t even actually define it, they can’t prove what it is scientifically, but ban it anyway because it scares them. People who own pit bull type dogs clearly think there’s a benefit to having them, otherwise they wouldn’t comprise 20% of the dog population.
“Square headed fighting dogs” except most dogs that people identify as “pit bulls” that look like “square headed fighting dogs” turn out to be boxer mixes or lab mixes this is per DNA studies. Now I don’t claim to be an expert on Canadian history but I’m fairly sure Labrador isn’t known for its dog fighting. Originally Boxers were used to hunt large prey but more recently have been used as guard dogs. There was a time in history when they were used for bull baiting however if you include that as criteria then you have to kill every English Bulldog in the country at which point you will have half the state of Georgia and every Marine in the country gunning for you.
The tens of millions of people who own and love pit bulls would not be better off if their dogs were euthanized. “If we just ban this thing I don’t like everyone would be better off” is a common refrain used to try and ban guns and it was used to ban alcohol. Well banning guns would be easier than banning pit bulls since most people at least agree on what a gun is. Alcohol kills far more people than dogs do to absolutely no benefit whatsoever to society that couldn’t be derived in another way. What happened when we banned it? People continued to drink it, organized crime developed as did three letter agencies to supposedly stop the organized crime and society was decidedly not better off for the experiment.
There are zero documented cases of fatal maulings in a grocery store in all of American history. Small kids drown all the time in swimming pools in other people’s yards. Most human beings both today and historically live their entire lives without regular pool access. None of the benefits of pools are unique and can only be arrived at through swimming pools since there are natural bodies of water most of which provide more benefit anyway.
You don’t like Pitbulls. Probably because you had some sort of traumatic event associated with one. That sucks. However your emotions are not sufficient to legislate 360 million people in this country. The statistical danger of a fatal dog attack in this country is minuscule. If you claim to care about public safety then you should be for the banning of anything that causes more deaths per anum which it turns out is a heck of a lot of stuff.
“Kids drown in other people’s pools all the time” is a nice pretty assumption with no data behind it. If pit bulls only attacked kids who were trespassing on other people’s property, then that would be a relevant comparison, and no one would be complaining about pit bulls.
Pit bulls were bred specifically for violence and have no redeeming qualities. It doesn’t matter how many people die from other things. They shouldn’t exist and they absolutely shouldn’t be allowed in public. There’s a reason the people defending pits are the same people denying reality on every other issue. Just because you really really wish something with your kindest heart doesn’t make it true.
What’s your PhD in? Whattaboutism?
You’re trying to rationalize your position after the fact because you got some oxytocin after you touched a pit bull.
I attempted to fully read all your comments and I do agree banning a breed doesn't make sense. But, using guns, pools and alcohol to levy casulty numbers in your argument pretty much falls into Stalins quote about breaking one egg as compared to a few hundred. (Look it up if need be) I think much of this is geographic too. There are areas where I live where pits are a serious problem. Many other areas, it's not an issue. I got my recent dog from a shelter and when I was looking for one, I was astounded by the amount of pits in the shelters and it was more than one. Though I'm not an expert at all, I've been happy to know many vets and dog trainers. Most of them give people warnings about pits. Its tragic for the breed too. I don't know what the answer is. But making fallacious arguments won't help. Also, the pit has become a status symbol. Nothing good comes from that.
yeah, the lack of statistical purity is the first hiding place of the pitbull lobby. but even if numbers are off by half, liability of dangerous breeds in comparison to common breeds is disproportionately off the charts. in some places the lobby has successfully snuffed the collection and dissemination of breed data, if that tells you anything.
overall numbers of injury to other people and pets is uncertain, in part because of constant efforts to bury or discredit evidence. what we do know, is that the number of attacks are going up. and if you know someone in the veterinary community you probably know most attacks go unreported
breed ambiguity is the other common hiding place of the lobby. some municipalities have nevertheless enacted bans on dangerous breeds and with the desired effect. in fact, the denver example is an open and shut case on what happens before, during, and after such a ban, and provides an easy response to those that place nitpicking of data purity above all else. in time, the ease and affordability of DNA testing will undermine nonsense about breed ambiguity.
no grownup democracy would ever tolerate this BS - choice of a few individuals imposing obvious risk on the rest of us, and without our say. Until democracy kicks in, vigilantism is the only recourse I can account for putting down four of these things, two by stealth, one in front of the owner, and another one where the owner was given the choice to deal with the animal himself
If you believe anything reported out of Denver you are a moron. The city of “there are no Venezuelan gang problems”…are you kidding me? There isn’t a more incompetent or corrupt city in this nation and that’s saying a lot. Denver the city that “fixed” its drug problem by legalizing weed and giving junkies clean needles? Denver that spends nearly $60 million annually to address homelessness and you still can’t get within five miles of the capital without having to step over passed out homeless junkies every ten feet. Denver that has done more to ruin Colorado than any other city in the state? That Denver? I wouldn’t believe the city of Denver if it told me that water is wet and the sky is blue.
The “pit bull lobby”? Are you kidding me? Most pit bulls are owned by either poor people or bleeding hearts neither of whom make up some sort of lobbyist group. The “pit bull” lobby isn’t a lobby, it’s a reflection of the fact that 20% of dogs in the US fall under the umbrella of pit bull type dog.
In my experience the only bites that go unreported are those that are not severe enough to require treatment. The vast majority of these come from small dogs. We are a lot of pit bulls in my practice and we see far fewer sketchy pit bull types than German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Blue Heelers. Without a doubt Cane Corsos are the scariest. Smaller dogs like Corgis, Chihuahuas, and Dachshunds are the most likely to bite but will typically do less damage. Most of our worst patients though are mixes of one or more of the above breeds.
Do I think it’s worth infringing on people’s rights to private property and demanding 20 million plus dogs be euthanized to potentially save 66 Americans a year? Nope. Particularly not in a country that kills a million babies a year without blinking an eye.
If you put it to a vote you wouldn’t like the results, those with a problem with pit bulls type dogs are the extreme minority in this country.
The problem isn’t that DNA tests are too expensive it’s that they aren’t run and that even if they were there is no genetic sequence that equals “pit bull”. The closest you can get is American Staffordshire Terrier and if you counted only registered Am Staffs as pit bulls for the purpose of bite statistics they would be much lower than 66%.
Great piece there! Three things jumped out at me...
1. Other than the irony of the woman who defended pitbulls online and then got mauled by her own the following year, I was shocked to discover that even Cesar Millan had these problems.
2. The chart on incarceration vs. murder in El Salvador suggests a libertarian optimum at the point [2020] where the lines on the graph diverge markedly. I guess that indicates where most of the true psychopaths and gang leaders have been eliminated, before moving on to those who are merely habituated into criminal careers--for those who fear runaway Latin American juntas who start off as law & order populists and devolve into paranoid dictatorships. I'm still waiting to learn how a young whippersnapper like Bukele was able to cleave the Gordian knot of judicial corruption and gangster politics borne from decades of warring factions militarized by foreign influence. What would Machiavelli think about such miraculous turnarounds? Maybe it was just a clandestine revolt by productive oligarchs and American business interests against the usurpers of their tax revenues; I hope so. That would be the most benevolent scenario.
3. Unfortunately, we do not have the Trump of liberal fever dreams; we have a half-ass Trump who makes the appropriate noises about the barbarian hordes, but maintains the relationship with the Arab mistresses of prior administrations. This suggests uniparty capture. There is no meaningful difference between Obama's Muslim Brotherhood overtures and the Bush family's longstanding business ties to the Bin Laden family and the House of Saud.
Why I no longer can walk my senior dog after an attack from a pit that I was told just wanted to play. Told him this is the last day I will be not armed and if he comes into the street that’s where his last breath will be. And I naively thought police grade pepper spray would work
I often use this metaphor to describe why I, for example, cross the street when seeing a pack of young pitbulls on the sidewalk ahead of me. "Not every pitbull!" they say, but, as statistics (and personal experience) amply show, enough.
The issue of course is that the suicidal empathy (of those who encourage pitbull migration and native breeding programs) isn't restricted to their own self-destruction, it affects the entire country.
Hahaha. Indeed
One statistic you left out - most dog bites happen to children, and most dog bites are to the face and head.
When I walked my dachshund in parks I had my hands full keeping children from running up to him to hug him as if he were a stuffed animal on a leash. Moms got mad at me for telling their kids to stay away. He never bit a kid but he could have easily bit many children had I not been a knowledgable and responsible dog owner. When kids asked me "Does he bite?" I answered, "All dogs bite."
I fed my 18-lb doxie raw chicken legs, which he bit into pieces before swallowing, bones and all. He could eat the raw bone out of a T-bone steak. A dachshund's teeth and jaw strength can easily do this. People are woefully uneducated about dogs, dog bites and the number of children maimed by dogs each year. Pit Bulls should be banned - no question.
I agree with the post and the general gist of comments re pits.
I also know what you are talking about with kids and your dog. Years ago when we would walk our dogs, it would throw me off the way some kids would be with their parents, then just run up to our dogs. The parents weren’t teaching their kids anything about asking if they could pet the dogs, etc. This was before we had kids and I guess our first intro into the world of parents not actually parenting. Even if the parents don’t know anything about dogs, maybe at least respect our space?
You are correct! Dogs are animals and thus can be unpredictable
My granddaughter loves dogs, however, we are teaching her to not run up to one and to ask permission to pet them.
And yes I would never go near a pit bull. And I’m sorry they are not even cute
A 60 year old man was mauled to death by pit bulls near my home a couple weeks ago. Then they attacked a woman and her 2 kids. A nice new neighborhood. My own elderly aunt nearly had her arm torn off by a pit bull. When I lived in NM a guy was walking his pit bull and it ended up biting off his genitals. Pit bull owners are retards and should be imprisoned.
That’s awful
Sadly it occurs so frequently that its hard to even keep track of
When I lived in NM ranch country it was routine for people to shoot dogs since they can cause enormous damage to livestock. If your dog got loose it would likely be terminated.
My wife is terrified of dogs. Where she comes from they eat dogs. We hike a lot and I have tried to reduce her fear but realize if a pit bull or aggressive dog came at us I wouldn't have much time to sweet talk the dog plus deal with my hysterical wife. So I have to carry a pistol and spray.
And if your dog attacks us I am coming after you. Pit bull owners are pussies to the core. One only needs a small dog for personal property protection. Anything else screams cowardice and stupidity.
The amount of pitbulls I’ve seen roaming free off the leash is utterly mind-blowing.
Or on some very thin string leash, straining against it…while on a close quarters walking trail or hiking path where it could easily attack anyone passing by
I don’t understand how owners don’t constantly worry about liability
I’m not sure they care. They are constitutionally incapable of putting people above their ‘fur baby.’ Their vibe is more “I dare you to say anything.”
I will never forget being called to the pediatric emergency room in the wee hours of the night, as sole hospital Chaplain at that hour, to find grown men — Police and EMS and Firefighters — in collapse, over the death by mauling of a two year old girl, by the four ‘friendly’ pit bulls her maniacal family had left her with while they made a ‘brief’ visit to the local package store. Nor the time my little brother was attacked as a five year old. Nor the night I walked in the dark past a 40 foot long, 8 foot high fence along which a pit dragged itself, slobbering and growling teeth bared with rage half-over that fence towards me as it’s hind legs scratched for traction against its glazed surface, and failed. Nor the time a supposedly tamed pit of a friend sprung for the throat of her sister’s puppy simply because it had committed the crime of existing. Nor the freeze I know every time a neighbor is about out of nowhere with his massive black pit, straining to break out of its chains. ‘She’s friendly.’ Or the endurance needed to visit friends blind to their animal’s nature and lulled by romantic notions into assuring guests that the dog’s immediate need to jump aggressively at a visitor is just ‘being playful.’ Yes the breed is deadly. No it is not the breed’s fault. Yes it is the stupidity and narcissistic pride of the breeders and owners on whose hands the blood rests. These dogs need to be banned.
Never interacted with a purebred pittie. Just ones with mixed with golden retriever or yellow lab. Still, those dogs are not ones I’ve ever felt comfortable to be around my kid. Statistics prove my instinct correct.
Concerns about mixes are correct. I worked at The Animal Medical Center in NYC for over a decade. Second largest full scale animal hospital in the country, after Angel Memorial in Boston. The mixes are no more reliable than the pures. In fact in some ways more dangerous because you don’t know which instinct-set you’ll be dealing with. I think it’s safer to have the guard up always as with pures, rather than to be lulled by a cuddly moment masking killer intent.
totally. effects of mixed breeding is part of the mythology/propaganda they’ve gotten away with to this point
Thanks, Johnny. Well said!
There is a very real issue with the statistics and it’s that there isn’t a universal definition of a pit bull which is generally a type of dog as opposed to an actual breed of dog. American Pitbull Terrier isn’t recognized by the AKC but is by the UKC, the AKC doesn’t allow APBT to be registered as American Staffordshire Terriers but the UKC lets Am Staffs be registered as ABPT. On top of that most APBT are not registered and most that are registered are registered through specific breed registries and not the UKC.
Multiple studies have shown that people are very bad at identifying dogs as being even vaguely related to pit bulls. Studies also show that professionals that work with dogs are as bad at it as the general public and that trying to train people how to spot one actually makes them worse at it. One study showed that most dogs identified as “pit bulls” were in fact boxer and lab mixes. Sometimes purebreds that are decidedly not pit bulls like Cane Corsos, English Bulldogs, and Boxers are counted as pit bulls. Location also has a lot to do with what gets counted as a pit bull. I had a hunting dog in college and in rural areas everyone knew he was a hunting dog but when I had him in urban areas people called him a pit bull.
It’s kind of like looking at a study concerning the prevalence of porn but they include any depiction of human genitalia as porn, including classic works of art and medical texts and photos.
Now I realize this article is not predominantly concerned with the pit bull problem but “beware of the crappy statistics you’re given” is a good rule of thumb.
That's a lot of hair-splitting or jerking off or something. Pit bulls are a menace and should be eradicated.
People like her always do this. There's no point in talking with them. Go around them, don't listen to them. Pull the lever.
They kill far fewer people than pools do so I assume you advocate we rid our nation of those. Dogs generally kill the same number of people in the U.S. as bees so I assume you are for the eradication of bees as well. Around the same number of kids are killed by bicycle accidents as people are killed by dogs so I presume we need to ban all children from bicycles. Children’s sports kill about the same amount of kids as “pit bulls” annually so I guess that goes too huh? Around 4x more children are killed by single mothers than people of all ages are killed by all dogs so maybe we should take kids from single moms. It would definitely be safer. But then again foster care seems to kill thousands of kids a year so maybe that’s not such a good idea either.
The simple fact of the matter is that being seriously mauled or killed by a dog is extremely unlikely and accounts for a tiny portion of annual deaths in America. The idea that anything causing 100 deaths per year in a nation of more than 360 million is some sort catastrophic scenario that needs addressed is silly.
Not to mention the fact that there are tens of millions of dogs in this country that somebody somewhere could decide to call a pitbull. This nation made a four movie action franchise with the main plot of the protagonist killed people who killed his dog. Do you think for a minute that millions of Americans will just take their beloved pets to vets to be euthanized because someone somewhere said so? Do you think you could even find enough vets willing to do it to get it done? Americans hate the ATF for shooting Randy Weavers dog and don’t care that they shot his wife and baby. Any attempt at a nation wide culling of pit bulls would inevitably wind up with more dead people than pit bulls because there is high overlap between gun ownership and dog ownership.
no. you missed all basic facts. these breeds are an easily avoidable danger imposed by entitled/insecure people on the rest of us, without our say so. as opposed to lightning, bees, pools, blah blah blah. dumbass. your threat of gun violence aside, municipalities have successfully enacted bans on these things and the problem went away. simple fact. overturning bans by the pigs among us who are more obsessed with selfish wants than the safety of children, families, and pets only slow a tide that is already turning against them
Many of the municipal bans have been overturned and more of them will be. Pools are easier to ban than pit bulls as are bikes. The thing about municipal bans are they are rare and therefore easily avoidable
Pools don't escape fences
I think you're missing the point, which is that bicycles and sports are useful and have benefits outweighing the risks, whereas pitbulls have no benefit.
A relative of mine was un-seriously mauled by a pitbull. She'll never have use of the finger again and if a neighbor hasn't rushed to help she'd have probably lost the whole hand, or worse. We lost a cat to a neighbor's never-hurt-a-fly pitbull. 2 injuries by pitbulls and none by other dogs.
Can you spell AWFL??
Many of the municipal bans have been overturned and more of them will be. Almost half of states have made breed specific legislation illegal. Pools are easier to ban than pit bulls as are bikes. The thing about municipal bans are they are rare and therefore easily avoidable by moving. A nationwide ban is a very different story. Plus almost all of the municipal bans grandfathered in dogs already there. Again since most dogs identified as pit bulls are actually mixed breed dogs you would still end up with pit bull appearing dogs long after you theoretically banned them and since you can’t prove something is a pit bull genetically there’s no real way to enforce it. Not to mention there are numerous studies that show no reduction in dog bites due to breed bans.
The people who are entitled and insecure are those who think 100 deaths a year is a reason to enact any sort of legislation let alone federal legislation.
This is a retarded argument. People aren’t walking around with swimming pools in the grocery store pushing you into them. And swimming pools provide an obvious benefit.
You’re reciting talking points to justify your opinion that you arrived at emotionally. If every pitbull vanished tomorrow everyone would be better off.
And as to your breed distinction, it’s not the gotcha you think it is. “Square headed fighting dogs” works just as well.
It’s the people arguing to be rid of of pit bulls that are arguing from emotion. They don’t like something so ban it. They can’t even actually define it, they can’t prove what it is scientifically, but ban it anyway because it scares them. People who own pit bull type dogs clearly think there’s a benefit to having them, otherwise they wouldn’t comprise 20% of the dog population.
“Square headed fighting dogs” except most dogs that people identify as “pit bulls” that look like “square headed fighting dogs” turn out to be boxer mixes or lab mixes this is per DNA studies. Now I don’t claim to be an expert on Canadian history but I’m fairly sure Labrador isn’t known for its dog fighting. Originally Boxers were used to hunt large prey but more recently have been used as guard dogs. There was a time in history when they were used for bull baiting however if you include that as criteria then you have to kill every English Bulldog in the country at which point you will have half the state of Georgia and every Marine in the country gunning for you.
The tens of millions of people who own and love pit bulls would not be better off if their dogs were euthanized. “If we just ban this thing I don’t like everyone would be better off” is a common refrain used to try and ban guns and it was used to ban alcohol. Well banning guns would be easier than banning pit bulls since most people at least agree on what a gun is. Alcohol kills far more people than dogs do to absolutely no benefit whatsoever to society that couldn’t be derived in another way. What happened when we banned it? People continued to drink it, organized crime developed as did three letter agencies to supposedly stop the organized crime and society was decidedly not better off for the experiment.
There are zero documented cases of fatal maulings in a grocery store in all of American history. Small kids drown all the time in swimming pools in other people’s yards. Most human beings both today and historically live their entire lives without regular pool access. None of the benefits of pools are unique and can only be arrived at through swimming pools since there are natural bodies of water most of which provide more benefit anyway.
You don’t like Pitbulls. Probably because you had some sort of traumatic event associated with one. That sucks. However your emotions are not sufficient to legislate 360 million people in this country. The statistical danger of a fatal dog attack in this country is minuscule. If you claim to care about public safety then you should be for the banning of anything that causes more deaths per anum which it turns out is a heck of a lot of stuff.
“Kids drown in other people’s pools all the time” is a nice pretty assumption with no data behind it. If pit bulls only attacked kids who were trespassing on other people’s property, then that would be a relevant comparison, and no one would be complaining about pit bulls.
Pit bulls were bred specifically for violence and have no redeeming qualities. It doesn’t matter how many people die from other things. They shouldn’t exist and they absolutely shouldn’t be allowed in public. There’s a reason the people defending pits are the same people denying reality on every other issue. Just because you really really wish something with your kindest heart doesn’t make it true.
What’s your PhD in? Whattaboutism?
You’re trying to rationalize your position after the fact because you got some oxytocin after you touched a pit bull.
I attempted to fully read all your comments and I do agree banning a breed doesn't make sense. But, using guns, pools and alcohol to levy casulty numbers in your argument pretty much falls into Stalins quote about breaking one egg as compared to a few hundred. (Look it up if need be) I think much of this is geographic too. There are areas where I live where pits are a serious problem. Many other areas, it's not an issue. I got my recent dog from a shelter and when I was looking for one, I was astounded by the amount of pits in the shelters and it was more than one. Though I'm not an expert at all, I've been happy to know many vets and dog trainers. Most of them give people warnings about pits. Its tragic for the breed too. I don't know what the answer is. But making fallacious arguments won't help. Also, the pit has become a status symbol. Nothing good comes from that.
yeah, the lack of statistical purity is the first hiding place of the pitbull lobby. but even if numbers are off by half, liability of dangerous breeds in comparison to common breeds is disproportionately off the charts. in some places the lobby has successfully snuffed the collection and dissemination of breed data, if that tells you anything.
overall numbers of injury to other people and pets is uncertain, in part because of constant efforts to bury or discredit evidence. what we do know, is that the number of attacks are going up. and if you know someone in the veterinary community you probably know most attacks go unreported
breed ambiguity is the other common hiding place of the lobby. some municipalities have nevertheless enacted bans on dangerous breeds and with the desired effect. in fact, the denver example is an open and shut case on what happens before, during, and after such a ban, and provides an easy response to those that place nitpicking of data purity above all else. in time, the ease and affordability of DNA testing will undermine nonsense about breed ambiguity.
no grownup democracy would ever tolerate this BS - choice of a few individuals imposing obvious risk on the rest of us, and without our say. Until democracy kicks in, vigilantism is the only recourse I can account for putting down four of these things, two by stealth, one in front of the owner, and another one where the owner was given the choice to deal with the animal himself
If you believe anything reported out of Denver you are a moron. The city of “there are no Venezuelan gang problems”…are you kidding me? There isn’t a more incompetent or corrupt city in this nation and that’s saying a lot. Denver the city that “fixed” its drug problem by legalizing weed and giving junkies clean needles? Denver that spends nearly $60 million annually to address homelessness and you still can’t get within five miles of the capital without having to step over passed out homeless junkies every ten feet. Denver that has done more to ruin Colorado than any other city in the state? That Denver? I wouldn’t believe the city of Denver if it told me that water is wet and the sky is blue.
The “pit bull lobby”? Are you kidding me? Most pit bulls are owned by either poor people or bleeding hearts neither of whom make up some sort of lobbyist group. The “pit bull” lobby isn’t a lobby, it’s a reflection of the fact that 20% of dogs in the US fall under the umbrella of pit bull type dog.
In my experience the only bites that go unreported are those that are not severe enough to require treatment. The vast majority of these come from small dogs. We are a lot of pit bulls in my practice and we see far fewer sketchy pit bull types than German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Blue Heelers. Without a doubt Cane Corsos are the scariest. Smaller dogs like Corgis, Chihuahuas, and Dachshunds are the most likely to bite but will typically do less damage. Most of our worst patients though are mixes of one or more of the above breeds.
Do I think it’s worth infringing on people’s rights to private property and demanding 20 million plus dogs be euthanized to potentially save 66 Americans a year? Nope. Particularly not in a country that kills a million babies a year without blinking an eye.
If you put it to a vote you wouldn’t like the results, those with a problem with pit bulls type dogs are the extreme minority in this country.
The problem isn’t that DNA tests are too expensive it’s that they aren’t run and that even if they were there is no genetic sequence that equals “pit bull”. The closest you can get is American Staffordshire Terrier and if you counted only registered Am Staffs as pit bulls for the purpose of bite statistics they would be much lower than 66%.
Spoken like someone happy with the profits maulers continuously create by just doing their thing... Maiming.. Killing...
This is BS
https://www.cremieux.xyz/p/pit-bulls-part-i-identification?hide_intro_popup=true
You can test yourselves, readers: https://pitguesser.com/
Maybe you should have read the research as opposed to just playing the game. From the research stated at the bottom of the website:
“A total of 5,922 respondents representing all US states and territories completed the survey. Respondents
correctly identified a prominent breed an average of 27% of the time. Each of the dogs had an average of 53
different predominant breeds selected. No one correctly identified a breed for 6% of the dogs, and 22% of the dogs
had the correct breed chosen less than 1% of the time. Only 15% of the dogs were correctly identified more than
70% of the time.
These results indicate that, regardless of profession, visual identification of the breeds of dogs with unknown
heritage is poor. Faulty breed identifications may have lasting consequences, especially in areas where certain
breeds are regulated or prohibited. An alternative method for describing the appearance of dogs should be
developed.”
I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for you though
or sorry that happened
We can just euthanize anything which looks kinda like the mutt mixes called "pit bulls", unless it has a certificate of breed.
But frankly, "boxer & lab mixes" sounds like exactly the cover shelters run for the broad category of "pit bull".
One of the main reasons I leave the house armed is because of this stupid breed and the morons who love their innocent demon dogs.
Great piece there! Three things jumped out at me...
1. Other than the irony of the woman who defended pitbulls online and then got mauled by her own the following year, I was shocked to discover that even Cesar Millan had these problems.
2. The chart on incarceration vs. murder in El Salvador suggests a libertarian optimum at the point [2020] where the lines on the graph diverge markedly. I guess that indicates where most of the true psychopaths and gang leaders have been eliminated, before moving on to those who are merely habituated into criminal careers--for those who fear runaway Latin American juntas who start off as law & order populists and devolve into paranoid dictatorships. I'm still waiting to learn how a young whippersnapper like Bukele was able to cleave the Gordian knot of judicial corruption and gangster politics borne from decades of warring factions militarized by foreign influence. What would Machiavelli think about such miraculous turnarounds? Maybe it was just a clandestine revolt by productive oligarchs and American business interests against the usurpers of their tax revenues; I hope so. That would be the most benevolent scenario.
3. Unfortunately, we do not have the Trump of liberal fever dreams; we have a half-ass Trump who makes the appropriate noises about the barbarian hordes, but maintains the relationship with the Arab mistresses of prior administrations. This suggests uniparty capture. There is no meaningful difference between Obama's Muslim Brotherhood overtures and the Bush family's longstanding business ties to the Bin Laden family and the House of Saud.
They should do an IQ study of pitbull owners. The results would only astound pitbull owners.
I m a dog lover but will never trust a pitbull. You can see it in their eyes.
Humoring the "pibble mommies" for a second: none of them have ever answered the question on why bad owners disproportionately choose pit bulls.
Try the owners for murder when one of these cretin dogs spazzes out
At the very least, manslaughter.
Why I no longer can walk my senior dog after an attack from a pit that I was told just wanted to play. Told him this is the last day I will be not armed and if he comes into the street that’s where his last breath will be. And I naively thought police grade pepper spray would work
I've never met a pit bull owner who wasn't either Black, or wanted to be Black.
Don’t forget that wiggers and coalburners love them pitbulls. That’s the other half of the equation- making their fetish for “pitties” out of fashion.
My friend gets shocked I won’t bring my kids to his house cause he has two of them. I’ll lose a friend over my kid getting mauled.
People idolize these things. I hate them.
My homeowners insurance will not write a policy if you have a pit bull among several other breeds known to bite.